tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704573462403312459.post1638382355611036412..comments2024-03-28T06:53:23.473-04:00Comments on Moneyness: Modern economies are somewhere between barter and monetaryJP Koninghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02559687323828006535noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704573462403312459.post-12493032246011651872022-12-12T05:43:59.644-05:002022-12-12T05:43:59.644-05:00Thank you so much for giving us detailed informati...Thank you so much for giving us detailed information on visas. <a href="https://stampthepassport.com/uk-visa-business/" rel="nofollow">UK Business Visa</a>sweden dsouzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17781782684306218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704573462403312459.post-56779082773499004092013-03-15T16:35:41.151-04:002013-03-15T16:35:41.151-04:00The Visa/Mastercard point is good. Should have tho...The Visa/Mastercard point is good. Should have thought about that myself. Won't such premiums become more common now that laws are changing? <a href="http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/officehours/2013/mar/12/washington-house-members-do-complete-180-allowing-credit-card-surcharges/" rel="nofollow">For instance</a>.<br /><br />In times past the premium always existed. At small shops, I could negotiate a better price if I paid cash. But now its getting more formalized, it would seem.JP Koninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02559687323828006535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704573462403312459.post-42475187884466401232013-03-15T14:52:40.696-04:002013-03-15T14:52:40.696-04:00I think we are too accommodated to the current wor...I think we are too accommodated to the current world and take acceptance at par for granted. Based on my limited historical knowledge, for example, paper notes more often then not were only traded at a discount. As another example, some shops that I use charge a premium of you want to use a Visa/Mastercard instead of cash or Maestro. Ryanair also charges different fees based on what payment method you use.<br /><br />After being exposed to this blog, I became more aware of this issue (as an economist). I also started to realise that a low/no premium/discount size can be a very fragile thing, and if something goes wrong, it can screw up faster than you can blink.Peter Šurdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17346161576941109337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704573462403312459.post-85938838447995169112013-03-02T06:46:20.031-05:002013-03-02T06:46:20.031-05:00JP,
have you read my thesis yet? I explain there ...JP,<br /><br />have you read my thesis yet? I explain there that Bitcoin can exist in almost any form natively. The problem with the convertibility of various forms does not arise, anybody can do the conversion themselves. So with Bitcoin, a fully monetary economy is possible.Peter Šurdahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17346161576941109337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704573462403312459.post-20315367417107940252013-02-26T22:41:35.421-05:002013-02-26T22:41:35.421-05:00If bitcoin IOU's have 100% bitcoin reserves, l...If bitcoin IOU's have 100% bitcoin reserves, like the old Bank of Amsterdam had 100% coin reserves, then you're right. It seems much more likely that bitcoin IOU's would be issued on fractional reserve principles. After all, I could make a promise to you right now that I will deliver 1 bitcoin to you tomorrow, and I would have issued a bitcoin IOU against 0% bitcoin reserves.Mike Sproulhttp://www.csun.edu/~hceco008/realbills.htmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704573462403312459.post-66644459196995676122013-02-26T19:30:35.454-05:002013-02-26T19:30:35.454-05:00Ok. What about if Bitcoin IOUs are not fractionall...Ok. What about if Bitcoin IOUs are not fractionally backed? How does that change things? Fully-backed bitcoin IOUs won't reduce the demand and value for bitcoin, it would seem to me.JP Koninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02559687323828006535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704573462403312459.post-53608003765108883842013-02-26T18:23:17.731-05:002013-02-26T18:23:17.731-05:00If ripple becomes popular, I see two possibilities...If ripple becomes popular, I see two possibilities for bitcoin:<br /><br />1) To the extent that bitcoin gets its value from its moneyness, ripple will reduce the demand for bitcoin and thus reduce its value. Any issuer of an IOU denominated in bitcoin is short in bitcoin, so these issuers would profit from the very bitcoin inflation that they caused. <br /><br />2) To the extent that bitcoin has 'curio value' (like baseball cards), ripple will not affect bitcoin's value. Mike Sproulhttp://www.csun.edu/~hceco008/realbills.htmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704573462403312459.post-17663237251916545132013-02-26T15:11:03.449-05:002013-02-26T15:11:03.449-05:00Like this? That's a good example.
As I pointe...Like <a href="http://www.library.hbs.edu/hc/credit/credit2d.html" rel="nofollow">this?</a> That's a good example.<br /><br />As I pointed out to Niklas on his post, I'm experimenting with <a href="http://jpkoning.blogspot.ca/2013/02/ripple-or-bills-of-exchange-20.html" rel="nofollow">Ripple</a>, which allows you to create and trade personal online IOUs denominated in USD, bitcoin, whatever. What quickly becomes apparent is that not everyone's IOU is the same. It's "bookkeeping barter" all over again.<br /><br />[Note to Mike... the system for transferring these Ripple IOUs harnesses the same technology as bitcoin. A bitcoin IOU will have the same fluidity and transaction speed as a bitcoin. If Ripple gets popular, what happens to the bitcoin price?]JP Koninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02559687323828006535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704573462403312459.post-67086287139244105922013-02-26T14:37:46.632-05:002013-02-26T14:37:46.632-05:00What you are describing used to be called "bo...What you are describing used to be called "bookkeeping barter". In the American colonies, for example, people would pay the grocer 5 shillings worth of tobacco for 5 shillings worth of groceries. People used all kinds of things as money, but their books were all kept in shillings.<br />Mike Sproulhttp://www.csun.edu/~hceco008/realbills.htmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704573462403312459.post-54833875520481238552013-02-26T12:21:30.298-05:002013-02-26T12:21:30.298-05:00I wrote a short post in response here. My main ob...I wrote a short post in response <a href="http://cheapseatsecon.wordpress.com/2013/02/26/pure-monetary-exchange/" rel="nofollow">here</a>. My main objection being that most people think in terms of homogeneous money nearly all the time. That might be a little squishy of a concept, but I think it's important.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02346818846281177599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704573462403312459.post-36691674319640774092013-02-25T23:43:33.513-05:002013-02-25T23:43:33.513-05:00Sure, I can be pinned down on "pure monetary ...Sure, I can be pinned down on "pure monetary exchange".<br /><br />In a previous <a href="http://jpkoning.blogspot.ca/2012/12/what-is-non-monetary-economy.html" rel="nofollow">post</a>, I've characterized the "pure barter" economy as a basic monetary economy, since even then people value goods for their monetary services. All that changes as we move from this basic monetary economy towards a pure monetary economy is an increasing concentration of transactions towards certain items. JP Koninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02559687323828006535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704573462403312459.post-34407694460079647142013-02-25T23:22:15.955-05:002013-02-25T23:22:15.955-05:00"They are all inter-convertible at fixed exch..."They are all inter-convertible at fixed exchange rates."<br /><br />Many are not inter-convertible. You can't buy deposits at a brokerage with paper banknotes. You can't sell credit card dollars for coins. And a non-bank can't turn a bank deposit into a central bank deposit. Many dollars rarely get used to buy each other even though they share the same name.<br /><br />According to the bar you've set, a fixed exchange rates is sufficient to amalgamate goods. Yet banknotes have circulated at floating rates in the past. See for instance <a href="http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2138929?uid=3739448&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=3737720&uid=4&sid=21101728378811" rel="nofollow">Reputation Formation in Early Bank Note Markets</a> by Gorton. In Angola, US$ and kwanza circulate at floating rates. Why does a fixed x-rate matter?<br />JP Koninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02559687323828006535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704573462403312459.post-26272497640975850632013-02-25T21:47:26.579-05:002013-02-25T21:47:26.579-05:00So just to pin it down, your conception of a pure ...So just to pin it down, your conception of a pure monetary exchange economy is a single exchange media transacted universally?<br /><br />Even with that definition, I tend to agree with Nick that we're off the half-way mark to a monetary exchange economy.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02346818846281177599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6704573462403312459.post-15373220630770220902013-02-25T20:51:12.511-05:002013-02-25T20:51:12.511-05:00Hmmm. Interesting post as always.
Some dollars ar...Hmmm. Interesting post as always.<br /><br />Some dollars are written in ink on paper (OK, plastic), some engraved on metal, some are electrons on computer disks; some are liabilities of the govt, some of the BoC, some of the commercial banks; some are worth $1, some are worth $2, some are worth $5, some are worth $10, etc. Does it matter? They are all inter-convertible at fixed exchange rates.<br /><br />Consider a list of all the millions of other goods, like apples, bananas, carrots, dates, eggs, fish, grapes, haggises, ink, jam, etc, that trade at varying prices, and almost never get used to buy each other.<br /><br />It's a very very big triangular table. All the ticks are incredibly bunched up among a set of goods that are very similar to each other.<br /><br />If you really wanted to, you *could* say that a 2011 loony is a different good from a 2012 loony. Nick Rowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04982579343160429422noreply@blogger.com